Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ebasha on October 24, 2009 at 1:56am

Thanks a lot for replying to me, I too have never heard of a treatment for FPB, the only type that could be cured I think is Alopecia Areata and even then it usually comes back occasionally.

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Permalink Reply by Tony J. on October 26, 2009 at 11:20pm

Syringes to the head for Androgenic Alopecia. You need to get more information than that. There is that one therapy called PRP, platelet rich plasma. The therapist draws blood from you and separates the PRP which contain growth factors and stem cells then inject it back into the scalp. I would be careful and do your research on this type of therapy. I don't think that there is any harm in injecting back your own growth factors and stem cells, except for the numerous pin pricks to the scalp, ouch. But I don't believe that all therapist have nailed down the correct protocol. Some therapist are using lasers to migrate the stem cells to the hair follicle and others are not using anything. And this procedure will cost several thousand for something that may or may not work for you.

Two companies to look out for in the future for Androgenic Alopecia (There are more).
Histogen is coming out (supposedly) with their Wnt stem cell therapy set for 2015 but they have not got to phase II of testing.

Intercytex takes a couple of hair follicles and clones thousands of dermal papilla cells which are re-injected into your scalp. They finished phase II but ran out of money.

http://www.histogeninc.com/products/hsc.htm
http://www.intercytex.com/icx/products/aesthetic/icxtrc

Take a look at the article Capsaicin and Soy Isoflavones Promote Hair Growth at the blog website inhuman experiment as an alternative.
http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/09/capsaicin-and-soy-iso...

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Permalink Reply by Ebasha on October 27, 2009 at 7:10am

thank you so much, you've been a great help, I'm really very afraid to undergo this treatment, and I can't possibly afford a long term expensive treatment, but sometimes one hopes :)

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Permalink Reply by Tony J. on October 30, 2009 at 3:03pm

Hello Ebada,

Here is an update on Histogen. There the ones that have the Wnt protein stem cell therapy. Apparently they had a phase of testing in South America (I don't know why) and should be available in Asia in 2 years. I guess their target date 2015 for the U.S. still holds.

http://www.sddt.com/news/article.cfm?SourceCode=20091029crd

Histogen exec sees growing promise in stem cell technology By ELIZABETH MALLOY Thursday, October 29, 2009 For Gail Naughton, one of the most exciting things about her company Histogen's recent clinical trial is just how fast they're seeing results. The trial, conducted in South America, is for a hair re-growth treatment. Looking at pictures of patient samples, the before and after differences are easy to see.

"You don't have to be a hair expert to see there are hairs where there were not (before) and they're thicker hairs," Naughton said, looking at photos of patients who received Histogen's hair re-growth treatment in South America. "One injection, we were able to increase it by 100 new hairs."

Hair regrowth is just one of the possible treatments Histogen hopes to generate with its stem cell technology. The company also has the potential to grow new organ cells, nerve cells in the spine, even treat cancer. But Naughton said hair treatments would have a huge initial market, which can bring in funding for other more serious conditions. "Hair can really generate a lot of excitement and help us raise the cash we need to develop the other products," she said. Histogen's chairwoman and chief executive, Naughton is somewhat of a rarity in that she is both a scientist and a businesswoman. She is working to make this less of a rarity in her other job -- as dean of San Diego State University's College of Business Administration. There, she has helped develop a joint Ph.D. and MBA program that will teach more scientists business skills, and vice versa. A native of Brooklyn, N.Y., Naughton was a scientist first, only learning the business side when she started her first company, Advanced Tissue Sciences Inc., in 1991

The technology Histogen is based on is from Naughton's own research. While Histogen can be considered a stem cell company, the treatments the company is working on uses a protein secreted by stem cells, rather than the actual cells themselves. The company gets the protein using a unique strategy. "The whole premise of Histogen is that if you go and grow human cells under conditions that are embryonic-like, the cells will revert back, and become embryonic," she explained. One of the advantages scientists have long seen with embryonic stem cells is that they secrete a kind of protein called WNT proteins. These are the proteins that signal to cells how to differentiate, or turn into the various muscle, bone, organ and blood cells they should grow into. Researchesr believed that they could isolate WNT proteins and use them to stimulate tissue growth and regrow things like organs, skin and hair.


Naughton's discovery with Histogen, which was based on other researchers' work, was that by growing cells in an embryonic environment -- low-gravity and low-oxygen -- within a few days, the cells would revert to their embronic state. This means the company could get WNT proteins without having to drestroy actual embryoes. "We're not the basic, 'A-ha!' discovery research (company)," she explained. "We're there saying, 'We know the composition of what we have, we know what's unique about it, let's go to the literature and see what other people have found to be important with these and let's go after the therapuetic areas, which are our greatest need right now.'"

While it conducts research on different therapuetic treatments, Histogen has products on the market which help generate some cashflow, though not enough to fully fund the company yet. The company sells a stem cell product, and is awaiting FDA approval for a wound care product. The hair product could be on the market in Asia within the next two years. Histogen has suffered some setbacks in the last year. The company had 38 employees until last January, when it was hit with a lawsuit over patent infrigement. Histogen had to lay most of the staff off, but still has 11 full-time employees. Naughton said that after another round of fundraising, they hope to begin rehiring. The company is currently raising money to expand its hair re-growth trial in Asia.

As both the executive officer of Histogen and the dean of SDSU's business school, Naughton acknowledged that she's a very busy woman. She works about seven days a week, whether it's raising venture funding for the company, reading up on new possibilities for WNT proteins or creating international studies programs for her business students. Still, she said, she wouldn't have it any other way. "By being able to be involved with both, I keep myself at a good balance," she said. "I love what I do."

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Permalink Reply by Heather L on October 30, 2009 at 3:53pm

Hey,

I do not have FPB but rather AA - and I recently finished a year of going for Low level laser therapy session at a hair salon near me. I was the only one with AA at that location, all the others were men and women with male/ female pattern baldness. Which I believe is caused from DHT built up?? Anyway over the course of the year I got to know a few of the women who were also going- and they were having great results! It did not do much to help my AA (then again if I didn't do it- who knows if my hair would be different?) My derms. office also uses the same type of laser for hair growth specific for male and female pattern baldness. You may want to ask your doctor about it? Sound much less invasive.

good luck!! :)

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Permalink Reply by Tony J. on October 30, 2009 at 10:34pm

Hello Heather,

I don't know if there are others here on Alopecia World that have gone through Low Level Laser therapy, but you are the first one I have encountered here. I would like to ask you a few questions on the therapy. How often did you go to therapy; 3 times a week? How long where the sessions; 15 min? 20 min? did they ask you wash your scalp with any specific topical or apply a lotion before the therapy session? And would you happen to know which equipment they where using? Would you know if the lasers have a wave length of 630nm or 650nm?

There has been varying results with LLLT, and I have a feeling that many of the therapist don't really have protocols for the LLLT on AA but are trying to figure them out. There are some studies that suggest that 308nm is best while another suggest 904nm is better. The first I read about using Lasers for Alopecia Areata was back in 2003 when Doctor Nasser studying laser therapy in China was introduced to LLLT for AA. At the time the Chinese doctors suggested that if the therapy didn't work within 5 weeks, it would probably not work at all. However this has changed. In newer studies it appears that that Chinese researchers have changed their mind, and that the longer the therapy the greater the "possibility" for AA to go into remission.

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Permalink Reply by Heather L on October 31, 2009 at 11:47am

Hi Tony,

My first experience was with LED- I went to MA and was part of a study with 8 other AA,AT, or AU patients. They were trying to develop a prototype (a LED helmut- 300 LED diodes) for use through Derm. offices. With that study- we did 15 minutes 3 times a week. results seem to be consistent among all of us...which was we all had some regrowth (including an AU patient) BUT it did not stop new spots from occurring. Also the AU patient that had re-growth experienced total hairloss a few weeks after the study was over. ugh.

I was told that the LLLT is a better (more efficient that LED). I do not know the answer to all your questions.... BUT know who can answer them for you! I used Mario Mazza's Laser. His website is www.mazzalaser.com He is great I met him a couple of times. AND it is very responsive to email- which the address is under "contact us" on his site.

For the questions I can answer... I went once a week for a half hour at a time. Yes we were to use his line shampoo and conditioner- the reason being that it cleansed the hair and follicle pores of DHT build up and inhibited further DHT. I agree I do not think there is a protocol for AA- but it does seem they have it down for male/female pattern baldness.

I found this interesting- it is my understanding that DHT has nothing to do with AA. BUT at my first appointment when they look at your scalp under a magnification - my spots had more visible DHT build up then the areas without spots... (and I could see that for myself) Still cannot figure that one out.... assume hormones have a play in AA? What's your thoughts on that?

I did it for a year- and for me...unfortunately no remission with AA. But I do feel my spots re-grew hair quicker while I was using the laser. I just WISH WISH WISH something could kick it into remission!!!!

As for my derms LLLT laser - don't know much about b/c going to the salon was both more convenient and less expensive. I do however have an appointment with her this Tues. so I will pick her brain about it.

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Permalink Reply by Tony J. on November 2, 2009 at 4:51pm

Hi Heather

the DHT and AA connection would be new one on me. I haven't read about this connection in the studies that I have seen. But I am not a researcher so it is possible that I may have missed studies on this connection.

the LLLT may have began by offering the therapy in clinics, but it has spawned many diy forums and groups of people who, I guess for a lack of a better term, self medicate have been making their own LLLT equipment for hair, acne and wrinkles.

The consensus from these groups suggest that 3 times a week 15-20 min a session should be the standard. For the moment we are just talking MBP. Some groups are moving to more sessions but lowering the time from 12 to 15 min. 4/wk 12min per session and are seeing a more favorable outcome. I believe many of the clinics will provide you with 1 or 2 sessions per week out of convenience to the customer, but if you ask the people who work their how often they use LLLT, they will probably tell you they use it more often than that (unless of course they were coached to say as little as possible about their therapy).

The longer the session and more frequent, as an example 5 /wk at 30 min has no effect on hair growth. This has something to do with the over bio stimulation.

People who did stop their progressive MPB said that after a year they stopped their LLLT but within 3-4 months their shedding started again. So it looks like some type of maintenance program is needed.

In regard to AA studies that I have seen usually have the therapies 3/wk. The length of time depends on the laser they where using whether pulsed 904nm or 308nm. It appears to me that the US is a little behind in LLLT for AA. NAAF did a study on LLLT but quickly gave up on the research because they said, in an email to me, that the side effects of LLLT were to severe to continue the study. And I was thinking, WOW, what where they using, a laser canon? So at the moment, I don't think we even have our language down and or an agreement among doctors and researchers on what we mean by Low Level Laser Light therapy. Standford University is trying to remedy this by calling all light therapies, coherent and non-coherent PDT (Photo Dynamic Therapy), and then have subcategories of these therapies.

In the U.S., we have little information whether LLLT can be therapeutic for AA. We just don't have the research. So, for the time being, we have to depend on anecdotal information and these forums and groups and talk to people who have gone through LLLT.

I don't know if you will see any therapeutic benefit from 1 time a week for 30min. You many want to refer Dr. Mazza to this link http://www.healinglightseminars.com/alopecia.html and then see what he says.

And the last thing is that many of these diy people and the people in these studies wash their head with aim of cleaning their scalp to remove any oils or other residues so to allow a deeper penetration of the Low level laser.

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Permalink Reply by sarah on February 9, 2010 at 12:39pm

i am really interested to talk to you about laser therapy... I have Androgenetic alopecia and if those women saw results, i would be interested in trying it!! Please message me.. I am new on this site and am still; figuring things out!!

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Permalink Reply by Ebasha on October 31, 2009 at 2:03am

All this scientifc talk, I can't understand a thing, I'll go the doctor, he's out of the country, coming back after 10 days, I'll tell yu guys what he said exactly and then you can tell me if it's correct. Thanks :)

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Permalink Reply by Heather L on October 31, 2009 at 11:47am

Good luck at the Doctors! I'll be curious to hear what he has to say!!!

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Permalink Reply by Tony J. on October 31, 2009 at 2:01pm

It has been a while since I looked at the PRP therapy and prices have come down considerably. From reading other forums you should see prices for PRP therapy at $500 or lower.

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